Hi dear listeners, you're listening to Radio Revolt.
A show in which migrants and asylum seekers deal with a very complex topic of migration.
We are people with international history who come together to gain empowerment throughout
doing community radio.
This is 92.6 Radio Helsinki.
Dear listeners, we are back in the studio again.
Dear listeners of Radio Helsinki, my name is Gea and today I have a chance to have an
online meeting with Olesya from Kiev.
Olesya, hi.
Hi.
Thanks a lot for your time and willingness to tell us about the situations and share
with us your perspectives about the ongoing war in Ukraine.
Maybe to describe a moment right now, where are you in the moment, what is in a way the
general mood and state today in Kiev on 24th of January.
Yeah, as you mentioned already, I live in Kiev.
So right now, as I used to live before the war, but originally I'm not from Kiev, the
situation is really calm.
I can say that I can see like these that people are tight.
I can see it in their faces, of course, because of the war.
But in general, everything seems like an ordinary, especially the city, because people walking,
people going to groceries, people living their lives, of course, it means nothing, I think,
like because we look like very calm.
But our souls, they, of course, are filled with all these worries about the war, especially
with this all what's happened in Nipro.
Probably you have heard when a missile hit a residential building and 44 people died.
Yeah, of course, we like I can say that.
So like this anxiety, like and stress, it's like have this way way way.
I mean that sometimes it's like too high and sometimes it goes down again and sometimes
again too high and then go down, goes goes up and down and so far goes down.
And we are like waiting for another for another airstrike siren.
Yeah, but last days they are pretty calm because we have like no airstrike sirens and we have
like no ballistic missiles.
So everything is is OK as it could be under these circumstances.
Yeah, I'm happy to hear that.
Also, looking at you and talking to you, I feel yeah, I feel some some calmness in your
voice and thankfulness for the situation and moment of peace.
How would you illustrate your everyday life now and also maybe throughout this ongoing
year of the war in Ukraine?
So my day like is is almost the same as it was before the war so far because I'm working
from home.
I'm working for an American company.
So I wake up, go to groceries and then I start working.
And then in the evening if I have time and if I have like power, I go to the gym.
I can say that before the war I had like more power.
I was right now for me like going, for example, to gym or to meet with people, meeting with
people is a kind of work.
So I need to make an effort.
The Ukrainian psychologists that they say it's OK.
It's a normal reaction of our body to the stress.
So I don't demand like high results from me.
So I'm working.
I can pay for my rent.
I can donate.
That's it.
So of course, like the tempo of my living is much is less energetic than before the
war, because before the war I used to perform stand up comedy and I have like resources
and power.
I wanted like to make jokes and so and so on.
And so and right now I have like power only like for normal life.
You mentioned the stand up comedy.
I got to know that it's really a race of stand up comedy now in Ukraine.
Is it true?
Is it a con?
Like what kind of content?
And it's still OK to bring it up in a stand up comedy now in Ukraine.
Yeah, it's a race because because before the like the big invasion, the full scale invasion
invasion of Russia, people used to watch Russians stand up as well.
And and right now everyone like every person decides to decides to refuse from every Russian.
Of course, the comedy and again comedy, it's always you need to get to know yourself in
this comedy, this material, these jokes.
And of course, only Ukrainians can joke about the circumstances right now.
So we can't find this experience in the comedy of the American comedians or European comedians.
This experience we can find in these talks like about bomb shelters, about air rights,
sirens, about the Russian troops.
We can we can find these jokes only in the comedy of Ukrainian stand up.
And it's OK to joke almost about everything.
We had like only, I guess, three or five big like conflicts or something like that when
the jokes when the jokes were misunderstood.
But people said sorry and that's OK.
And no one is cancelled.
And everything is fine.
And again, all the stand up comedies in Ukraine, it's everything for the nation, everything
what is connected to culture.
I mean, like stand up concerts, dances, I don't know, songs.
Everything is closely connected to make money for the armed forces.
So everything is for this.
No one is like working just to buy a new house or buy a new car.
Everyone is working.
And the culture right now, Ukrainian culture works only for the Ukrainian army.
Going back to the stand up comedy and the element of laughter, I believe there is this
connection of therapeutic approach through acceptance of situation as it is, the present
moment as it is, and the healing potential of laughing.
But most probably it was not that easy at the beginning, right?
Maybe going with the question in the direction of, yeah, what were some of the most common
moods among the people and some advices from the psychologists, especially in the beginning
when this shock is the biggest?
So like the advice, the pieces of advice were like pretty simple.
Just stay safe.
At least try to stay safe.
Follow the recommendations and follow the sirens.
So if it's a red siren, please don't be like outside.
Please be indoor.
Please be in the bomb shelter.
And yeah, that's it.
Talk to your family because they can support you like it was in the beginning.
Touches, they always help.
Like it's for us from the physiological perspective works.
Yeah.
Use blankets because it's again, when you see all the people in the catastrophe, they
are also covered with blanket because it's also psychological protection for us and drink
warm tea or coffee or something like that.
It's also helps like usual physiological things.
They can help to overcome this situation.
It was like in the beginning because like I can say that the most difficult times it was
like first three days or four days because we had like we have like no understanding
and because the myth of this great Russian army exists those times.
Right now we don't we don't believe in this myth anymore because they said that like they
the second best army in the world and we can see that it's not the truth.
It's a myth.
And yeah, and it was like the difficult time, the most difficult time because we don't
understand how the war works.
I can say and so far we can understand.
For example, we can understand which air raid siren is dangerous and which not because we
have like this monitor channels and they say that for example, missiles were launched and
that's why we understand.
So this air raid siren is really dangerous.
And other for example, it can be like trainings in Belarus.
And because of these trainings, we have this air raid siren and we understand.
So this is like potentially not dangerous.
I can say that we were taught how to live with this with this old information.
We were taught how to live with this and how to stay safe.
Yeah, I strongly believe that in this process in this psychological process, there is a
lot of resilience being integrated into you, not just in the point when everything will
end that you will as a personality be way stronger, but also throughout the process.
Yeah, in order to mentally protect yourself that there is some shelter within you.
Yeah.
How do you see personally yours and the process of your friends and family in order to become
stronger?
We know that all the difficult times they make us stronger.
It's true, but we also know that this process is not so simple.
For example, I have so far anxiety and I had never have anxiety before the war.
Never.
So I didn't know what is that.
And I know that it's like a psychological problem I need to cope with.
And I went to like to the doctor.
So I take sometimes from time to time this this anxiety pills.
A friend of mine, he has like depression is a it's a reactive depression.
Because the Russian army killed his grandfather.
And yeah, and of course, we understand that we need to leave.
We need to to take care of our health.
But we understand that it will be like not the easiest process.
So we understand that we need to take care about us psychologically as well.
And it's not just simply that, OK, it's dark.
It's dark time.
So we will get stronger.
No, it's it's dark time.
So we will need to work on ourselves to get stronger and to overcome this time and to
live through and then to be a normal person who can lead a normal life.
We understand that it's not just a simply it's not just because we want.
So we need to work.
And it's like another part of our life where we need to put our efforts.
For example, sometimes you need this only simple tricks like breathing techniques, for example.
We still believe that we need to control everything with our brains, with our mind.
But sometimes you need to do something like physiological, like breathing technique.
And it helps.
So, yeah, so we know.
And I can say that we have a lot of psychologists right now that are popular in the Ukrainian society.
And they explain how everything is going, how our minds work.
And they explain that it's OK if you want to sleep like 11 hours in a day.
It's OK. It's like the best protection for your psychological health.
And I'm really happy that we have all this information right now and that people in the society are talking about it.
Because in the previous wars, no one talked about it.
And then we have this lost generation in the First World War after the First World War,
because no one talks about it, like psychological health and the importance of the psychological health.
What would you say?
How did the following of the news change for you and your closest ones?
On one hand, you want to and you have to follow in order to know to be safe or in order to know when and how to be prepared for the following situations.
But again, in the field of for the field of mental health, it's sometimes easier to create a bubble around you, right?
Yes, sometimes it seems to be easier, but it's almost impossible just to close from the world
and from the news, because if you have empathy and everyone has empathy right now, you can't unfollow the news, unfortunately.
But you can use this. We call it like digital hygiene.
So when we like we have only like official source of truth, so we believe them.
Then we have like so first of all, you need to follow only like the reliable news, because a lot of news channels and so on,
they want to publish something like very provocative and to be the first.
And if you want to stay safe, like mentally safe, you need to follow only like the official news and not to read like unreliable resources.
And of course, not to read something like Russian resources and so on.
I mean, not only Russian like directly Russian, but there are also like resources under Russian influence, you know,
that they have this narrative of Russian propaganda in them and they just really it's slightly to notice it.
But it influence a lot. For example, two weeks before we had like a lot of news from Donetsk region, from Bakhmut and Solidar.
It's and all the Russian propaganda was screaming.
So we concurred everything we concurred. And if you and of course, it's like make you depressed because you understand not because of not because that we can't like get this territory back,
but because you understand that a lot of our soldiers are dying there right now.
And all these photos in social media and so on, it's everything like horrible.
Again, all the politicians, all the public persons, they all highlight that we need to follow only like the official resources of Ukraine.
And if we read something like from outside, it should be also something reliable as like Washington Post.
I don't know. New York magazine is just not to be caught with the Russian propaganda narratives because they are working.
And, you know, all the words, they depend not only on the equipment on the army.
They also depend on the mood of the society, really of the mental state of the society.
And if we believe that we will win, then we will win. It's it's like the problem of motivation.
But if we don't believe in our victory, how can we win? So, yeah, we know that we should believe.
And it's like I can say that we certainly know that we will win.
So it's like no other options, but we don't know how long the way to this victory will take.
So that's it. That's that's the only question we have. And how many sacrifices, how many people would die?
That's it. So that's everything we don't know. But we know that we will win.
Leaving our listeners with this question of unknown and known throughout a little music break.
Thank you for listening to Radio Revolt. My name is Ghea.
And today I'm online talking with Olicia from Kiev.
Oh
Hey
Oh
Dear listeners of Radio Hirsinki, you're listening to Radio Revolt.
And I'm talking to Olicia from Kiev. In the first part, we opened the discussion about, yeah, how to maintain psychologically sane throughout the war conditions in Ukraine and finishing the sentence before the music break about the uncertainty about the end of the war, but certainty that there will be victory.
Going a tiny bit into the field of Ukrainian domestic policies. How do you see it at the beginning of start of the war and throughout the war, about the decisions that Ukrainian domestic policies made?
So we believe like to our government because it's only like possible variants to survive this war is just work in collaboration and everything was made from my perspective very wisely because people were evacuated.
People were provided with help. People were sad that you need to evacuate from some regions. For example, we have like these problems with the some regions where the Russian artillery works and people they don't want to go to flee.
That's the problem, not of the government because government provides with all possibilities and volunteers provides with all possibilities, but people they don't want to leave their houses. And it's also it's obvious.
It's easy to understand. It's easy to understand, especially when we're talking about the elder generations about we about our like grandparents. Of course, they didn't want to leave everything they were building all their lives.
So I can understand because, for example, my own parents, they also don't want to equate. So I can understand this point, but everything so I can say like the government so unlike the state is working in collaboration with volunteers.
We know that like Ukraine, like as opposed to post Soviet countries, not the most powerful. We know this about our country. It's not like a secret for anyone. So we are not top one.
So but we know that there are some weaknesses of our state, what can be in power with volunteers and we're working like in this close collaboration.
And with the focus on Zelensky, there are, of course, as well, people opposing him. How do you see it? Who are these people? What are these oppositions about? And how is it presented throughout the media to you?
Of course, there are these people who are trying to hype on the war. But everyone in Ukraine, almost everyone supports Zelensky right now, even if these people were against Zelensky before the war, even if these people are like from the Ukrainian armed forces, because you need to have only one leader during the war.
That's true. And Zelensky is this leader from what we see. And I feel a big respect for him because he didn't flee from Kiev. And it means a lot for the army. It means a lot for the people because he had this opportunity.
He could go to Lviv or somewhere like to the west part of Ukraine where it's safer. But he stayed in Kiev and it means a lot for us. And frankly speaking, I really like what he's talking and how he is articulating everything.
And he's pretty straightforward. He's pretty straightforward and everyone likes it. And even if the opposite side, political side, I mean, for example, the previous president of Ukraine, Poroshenko, who is like opposition to Zelensky, even he right now tries not to focus on these debates because it's useless.
We have like the one aim because, okay, you can debate Zelensky, but if there would be no Ukraine, if there any sense of your opposition, so you will not have the country over that you want to have this control.
So everyone understands that and people are in most cases united among this figure. And of course, we know that there are some problems and they're trying to resolve it.
And we have different institutions in country who tries to have this control over corruption because it's impossible to be corrupted before the war and then in one day to be without corruption.
Yeah, but they're working. They're working. The security guard of Ukraine, they're working.
Do you think that Zelensky would be ready to end the war by political agreement? And if yes, what do you think this agreement would be like?
I don't think that Zelensky would end the war with a political agreement. If you're talking about with the negotiations with Russia, first of all, Zelensky is a good representative of the goodwill of people, I can say, because no one wants to talk to terrorists because how it's possible to talk to terrorists when they hit a residential building and they kill 44 people in Dnipro.
And what we're talking about with them, what are like other subjects of our of our negotiations, it's impossible to negotiate with terrorists. Unfortunately, terrorists understand only the power. They understand only the war.
That's their language. And we are not. We had we had we have like no guarantees if we have an issue, if we will, if we would have negotiations right now and political agreement to end this war, we will have the same war like in 10 years or in 15 years on 50 years.
So this question wouldn't be close because we had this experience in 2014 when everyone wants to talk to Russia. We talked to them and what have we now? Because if I'm not mistaken, on 23rd of February, Putin said that, oh, no, no invasion.
What are you talking about? No war with Ukraine. What are you talking about? On 24th of February, their soldiers crossed our borders. So what what could be negotiations? My native village where I'm from, it's under occupation. What will be negotiations?
So it's it should stay there with the Russians. So my home should be stay there with the Russian for what purpose? I don't think that it's possible. Negotiation could be only after the tribunal and after Putin and his team will be conducted and will be sentenced.
What would you say? Why is Putin so successful with his politics?
He's dictator and all the people who lives under dictator, they don't want to fight to fight against them. And even the people who fled the Russia, who fled Russia, they have you seen any protests in Europe or among these people who fled Russia? No, no protests, no support, no open support, almost no open support to Ukraine.
Or it's all this support can be kind. So we support Ukraine, but we want to donate only to humanitarian needs. But all the humanitarian needs cost only because of your army. Please donate to our army. And that's only possible way. That's only possible way you can choose like two places.
You can choose like two positions on the one side and they have like no will. That's the problem. Because, for example, for me, it's really horrible. I had, of course, as everyone, I had friends there in Russia and they wrote to me when I was in the first days.
I told them that your country is bombing our country and your missiles are hitting our residential buildings are hitting our country. And she said, and the girl, what she said to me on our TV, it was said another way. And I was like, so, so how can impact? And it's a young, it's a young girl. She's like 24 or 25. She has all the access to the information. She has access to the internet.
Yeah, it's interesting to think in terms of media coverage, of course. How would you say do people often go to follow as well Russian media in Ukraine just in order to see what perspective is brought to them? And what does it do to you? Like, are there, for example, even more protests happening because of that?
We don't follow Russian use. I can say sometimes something can be shown to us like an example of propaganda. I mean, for example, when it was with Nipro with this building residential, it was on 14 of January. So it was like, it was also really symbolic because it was 14 of February. It's the celebration of all new year for us.
So it's they they like these symbols and they in some pieces of Russian propaganda were shown like in our news because they represented like as it was our fault that this house was destroyed, that we had set fire to this far this house.
We are like, oh, that's shit. That's everything we can say about this. Yeah. And there is no need to follow for me. For me, it's like to follow the news written by Hebel's. There is no need to to know what Hebel's thinks. For what reason? It's a propaganda. It's a pure propaganda. It's not by the other perspective of the situation.
No, they come to our city. They violate the international law. They kill our people. For what reason? For what reason do I need to know their perspective? So for what reason do I need to a perspective of rapists if he rapes or she rapes? I don't know. They rape if they rape just to be told.
Yeah, I don't know. I have like no need to know this perspective. So it's a violation. It should be the person who violates the law should be conducted, should be sentenced.
Small city.
Keeps me.
This small city.
Keeps me running from dusk till dawn.
This small city.
Keeps me. Keeps me.
This small city.
Keeps me running from dusk till dawn.
This small city.
Keeps me.
This small city.
Keeps me running from dusk till dawn.
This small city.
Keeps me.
This small city.
Keeps me running from dusk till dawn.
This small city.
This big city.
Shakes me.
This big city.
Shakes me up and down.
This big city.
Shakes me up and down.
This big city.
Shakes me up and down.
This big city.
Shakes me. Shakes me.
This big city.
Shakes me up and down.
Nothing's gonna change.
These memories.
These mysteries.
Nothing's gonna change.
My memories.
My histories.
Nothing's gonna change.
These memories.
These mysteries.
And mercy.
Can fix me.
And my city.
Fixes everyone.
And my city.
Fixes me. Fixes.
And my city.
Fixes everyone.
And my city.
Fixes me.
And my city.
Fixes me.
And my city.
Fixes me.
And my city.
Fixes me.
And my city.
Fixes me.
And my city.
Fixes me.
And my city.
Fixes me.
And my city.
Fixes me.
And my city.
Nothing's gonna change.
My memories.
My histories.
His memories.
His histories.
My memories.
My histories.
His memories.
His histories.
My memories.
His memories.
His histories.
Latvia, Latvia, Estonia, they help us a lot.
Because they understand that the next countries would be them.
We're really thankful to Poland.
Because Poland does everything great.
The problem is that this war
is the biggest war in Europe
since the Second World War.
So it means that equipment is never enough.
Support is never enough. Unfortunately.
We're really thankful for everything.
But support is never enough.
And it couldn't be enough until we win or be defeated.
Which I don't believe can happen.
So that's the problem.
We need everything.
For yesterday, as we always say.
We need everything, all the stuff, and for yesterday.
And for example, and again,
the propaganda also works in Europe.
Especially we can say it about Germany.
Unfortunately.
They feel guilty for the Second World War.
Because they think that the Russians conquered.
The Russians won those times.
But the problem is that in the Second World War,
100% of Ukraine was occupied.
Not Russia.
I read a presentation.
Because when I did some researches
about my village in the Second World War,
I read it was like a jury of the German soldier.
And he wrote, Russian army, Russian village,
Russian army, Russian village.
But it was not Russian army, it was Soviet army.
It was Ukrainian village, what was a part of Soviet republic.
So they have this misinterpretation.
I don't understand the
freedom of the parties.
We need them to stay alive.
And I don't understand these hesitations.
I understand how it works.
I understand all this propaganda.
It's really complicated to say that,
oh, sorry, we were not right.
We were wrong when we were talking to Putin in 2014.
We were wrong when we were
wrong when we thought that they are adequate
and we can talk to them.
But they still have these efforts.
For what reason, I don't know.
If you see a terrorist in a school,
you wouldn't negotiate with the terrorist.
You will do everything just to save children from this school.
And just to get this terrorist imprisoned.
That's all.
So you shouldn't be negotiating with them.
Even if you had a good relationship with terrorists before.
So Russia is a terrorist state.
And they are doing terrorist things to our country.
So there is no way to negotiations.
There is only way for us to support.
And as Zelensky said,
we don't need this, driving these hard bugging.
There are two options.
You either want to help us or you don't want to help us.
That's it. Just don't try to drive this hard bugging
as for example Schultz tries to do.
Alicja, you mentioned in between
that you are interested in the history
and also currently you are reading about the Ukrainian history.
What are you learning
through these sources
and also regarding the history?
What were the learning points
from previous wars in Europe
that can teach us about the process
and the end of this one?
Everything that these wars can teach us
that international institutions
as United Nations and so on,
they work only 10 or 15 years after the war ends.
After that they are not
workable anymore.
They need to be renovated each time
and they need to find new ways how to control the world.
History doesn't
teach anyone anything.
I am really upset with that because otherwise
we won't have the same conflict
throughout the times
that we have in them.
I learned the Ukrainian history
because it's interesting for me
because the Ukrainian nation was formed
like a nation who believed that
the unity of people was formed in the 19th century.
Frankly speaking,
Ukraine as an independent
and full country was
firstly announced as a full country
and then it was announced in 1991.
This war right now is vital for us.
We have another culture than Russian.
We have another language than Russian.
Even Russians speaking Ukrainians,
for example, I am Russian speaking Ukrainian,
they have another mentality
and they have another self-representation
because no one in Ukraine who speaks Russian
they say that I am Ukrainian but I am Russian speaking Ukrainian.
That's all. I don't want to be controlled
by the dictators. We have another goodwill.
We are not Russian.
We will not be patient to the tyrants
as the Russians are.
We are not. For example, we had this case
with Yanukovych 2014.
We have another mentality
that is vital for us to be independent,
to be safe and to decide on our own
how to live in this country.
I would say these are beautiful finishing words
from you, Alicia.
Thanks a lot for this exploration process
we made from going
from more personal perspectives
throughout how people are feeling
and how they are mentally dealing with the situation
into exploring the domestic politics
and your points of view
about the process and the end.
Thank you for highlighting this topic.
Thank you.
Looked on the bed and brother was dead
I went down the room
didn't stay long
Looked on the bed and brother was dead
Oh
Oh my brother
Oh
Oh Lord am I
Trouble so hard
Oh Lord am I
Trouble so hard
Don't nobody know my
Trouble's begun
Oh Lord am I
Trouble so hard
Don't nobody know my
Trouble's begun
Don't nobody know my
Trouble's begun
Oh Lord am I
Trouble so hard
Don't nobody know my
Trouble's begun
Oh Lord am I
Trouble so hard
Oh Lord am I
Trouble so hard
Don't nobody know my
Trouble's begun
Don't nobody know my
Trouble's begun
.