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From below in conversation
Discussions, interviews, discussion rounds on current topics
A program from the newsroom editorial office of Radio Helsinki
Hello from below in conversation
Tamara greets you from the studio
and today it's about the Campfire project on the island Lesbos
Greetings also go out to our listeners from Radio Freiraat in Innsbruck
The contribution was taken by Radio We See Mytelini
a project in cooperation with Radio Helsinki, Comit, Borderline Lesbos
Dorro Blanke, Ludwig Boltzmann Gesellschaft and Action for a Sustainable Future Hub
It's about the Campfire project
an self-organized group that looks for migrants and refugees on the island when they arrive and supports them
Jetta explains to Toby how their rescue missions look like, what repression they have experienced
and why the project no longer exists in this form
The contribution is in English
It's freedom for everybody or...
It's freedom for everybody or freedom for...
It's freedom for everybody or freedom for nobody
Radio Helsinki
Freiraat Radio on 92.6
Campfire
Welcome to Voice of Mytelini
This episode's guest is Jetta
and she has joined us today to speak about Campfire
which was a self-organized search and rescue group active on Lesbos' south shore for several years
The average distance between the south coast of Lesbos and Turkey is at most 11 kilometers
and is therefore often used as a crossing point for migrants looking to get to Europe
Lesbos is well known for the struggles that migrants have to go through in order to find a decent new life
Recently it has become more known for the deadly practice of pushbacks
As a result of these, the people are forced to hide upon arrival without assistance or support
It wasn't always this way
and Campfire was one of the many groups active on Lesbos in order to ensure people save a rival
An interesting aspect about Campfire specifically is the fact that they were a self-organized rescue group
in contrast to the many other organizations that were active in this field from the other side
So today, without further ado, we speak to Jetta and get her perspectives, opinions and experiences
Well, I am Jetta
I am or actually I was working in search and rescue at the shoreline of Lesbos from beginning of 2016
till the beginning of 2020
I live on Lesbos and besides this I have been involved in rescue missions also in the central Mediterranean
twice with Juventa, twice with SeaWatch
and besides search and rescue I am working in general with migrants on Lesbos mainly
trying to support people as much as possible
And what I have heard on Campfire and also the reason I wanted to make this program is that
aside from the organizations that are more well known working on Lesbos on the shoreline
these are all somehow quite formally organized NGOs
and they do a lot of publicity, they do a lot of these kind of things
Well, if you Google Campfire you will not find so much as opposed to lighthouse relief or something
So this makes it quite an interesting topic because I was wondering why do you not find so much information on Campfire
I mean these people were active for years, like what is the background in this
At some point I started to figure out that Campfire is organized in a much different way
or was organized in a much different way than these other organizations
More self-organized, could you explain to me how do you get to this conclusion
and how does being a self-organized rescue group actually work in this kind of situation
Yeah, let me maybe start with the second part of your question
because this explains the first part
Self-organized, what does it mean?
I mean obviously in each and every group you will have people with more and with less experience
This does not necessarily have to create a hierarchy in terms of decision making in general
as a general question like where to go with the project
It does though have an influence in the very moment of the rescue, for example
So basically the idea was, I mean especially living on Lesbos you see many many big NGOs
with or you saw because these times are over
but in the past you saw all those big NGOs with a lot of money
and the decisions how this money is spent is usually made in some back office
in let's say the Netherlands or in Germany or in France or wherever but not on the ground
and we felt that this is neither a structure that we like politically
nor a structure that will actually really help us doing our work
So what we did was kind of unique in a way in terms of we had a core team here
but even from the core team everybody was working also with other projects
and on top would do X amount of shifts throughout the week
and the shifts were night shifts only we didn't monitor in the daytime
So of course this core team is not enough
The core team is not enough, you need quite a lot of people to cover shifts
that basically you know people need to be there eight hours every night
and in each team you need at least four people
In the beginning we were more but then we adopted a bit to the needs
and to the change in terms of people power on the island
So yeah basically you needed a team consisting of four people
and among them always one team lead which again it sounds like hierarchy
but the main point is this would have been the person with experience
in order to make the ad hoc decisions
So due to the fact that nobody was working with Campfire full time
people were here anyway
and this again meant that we neither had to provide accommodation
nor any financial support so no money at all was needed
you know to enable people to do this work
which again means we didn't have to ask for fundings
all we needed was kind of little money for equipment
for charging the work phones and to put fuel in our cars
and this money we actually managed to find among ourselves
so everybody was just putting in 10 euro every now and then
and the costs that were about 600 euros per month mainly for fuel were covered with this
and so we got around this whole thing of having a big back office structure
or you know also a big media presence was not needed
and this part is crucial to me because what we have seen
what some of the other NGOs were doing was basically
right in the moment of people arriving they would take pictures
they would take videos
believe me this is not a moment where somebody would really appreciate a camera in his or her face
and we always said we do not want to do this
so this is also why we had a zero media policy
journalists were not welcome and we ourselves were also never behaving like this
so nobody in Campfire ever took pictures of the arrivals
and this is also why you wouldn't find us on the internet
because there were simply no arguments to have a homepage
the only argument would have been to report what's going on
but then we felt like there is enough pictures of boats and people arriving on the shores of Lesbos
why do we have to add on to this
during the time that you were doing Campfire did you give interviews?
not really, I mean there were one or two occasions where I would give an interview
but then you know in a setup like now like I would have been sitting somewhere
maybe even at the shore but not during the night
and not in a moment of actually active working
because also okay one thing is you can give an interview
a total different thing is to have somebody taking pictures or videos of an actual rescue operation
so in the setup that you just described where you're working with people that are anyway on the island
and this helps you a lot in terms of financial pressure
but these people then I can assume for your story were not professionals
because the other organizations I would say most of them
or is the impression that I have would be working with professionals or at least some
yeah I mean define professional right
I would say the the core team that I mentioned
they were mostly not trained lifeguards nor firefighters like professional emergency responders
no but they had gained a lot a lot of experience on the ground and working with professionals
so they were trained to a level that I would say was as if not even more professional
than quite some of the other actors
just due to the fact that this core team mainly consisted of people that were on the island for ages
and that had done this job already for years
so you know through this we managed to reach a level of being professional as a team
that I would say we never felt we have to hide or you know we are somehow less efficient or professional
or less well trained than others
though if it comes to people that join such a team and they only stay for x amount of time
let's say four weeks which I believe was our minimum time back then
of course you have to train them
and this is what we did we had quite long briefing for everybody
so before doing your first shift with responsibilities
you would be with another more experienced person and you would receive a briefing of actually eight hours
plus we had a practical like hands-on training once a week
where you would really practice like how to welcome a boat in a safe manner on shore
I mean practically professional of course to me also means that something else besides like practical knowledge
or theoretical knowledge even like for a doctor or rescue swimmer or something
but also emotionally I can imagine it must be quite difficult for people to be put in a position
I mean from the images that you see and not the sensationalized highly stylized photos of some organizations
I can imagine some really bad things happen also during an arrival or can happen
and that this can take quite an emotional tax on the people involved so how did you deal with that aspect?
I would say already before people would join one of us would have had an interview with them
and trying to see a little bit you know how stable is this person what is actually the motivation to join
because also yeah with this work potentially come quite intense and bad experience
but I think the main challenge always was boredom
yeah just to stand it if there is a week or two weeks or maybe three weeks without a single boat arriving
and all you do is you're at the shore you are patrolling you're staring through your binoculars hour after hour in wind in rain
and then to stay motivated for this time even if nothing happens is really really crucial
and this was always a main part that we would have tried to already figure it out before and prepare people well
then after every operation or whenever something happened we would have a proper debriefing
first in the whole team but then also the team lead of this night would approach the people again and say like
hey would you like to talk about what happened and sometimes it's not even a very heavy thing
like it's not necessary that somebody died or that almost died or something like this
it can be small things you know that there was like this one child on shore that reminded you your little baby sister
and this can be quite a shocking and heavy moment for people in my opinion the only way to deal with this well
and this doesn't matter if you are professionally trained let's say a firefighter or a paramedic
or if you are not and just there to you know to be on the lookout and to give some dry clothes and some rescue blankets to the people
it is the same like you have to talk about this after with people who understand and who do not judge you in terms of like
hey what are you talking about what I have seen yeah like this would have been of course the worst response
and there I think it's just important to create an atmosphere where people know that they can approach other people in the team
their team lead whomever or maybe the person who had the first interview with them or the person who trained them
in order to really speak about this moments and to take everything that was experienced by volunteers all their feelings very very serious
What does a typical boat landing look like? Could you walk us through what that looks like for Campfire let's say?
So for Campfire we were in the position that the southern shore of Lesbos is actually quite gentle for arrivals
So there is in only few areas is big rocks mainly we are talking about beaches not sandy beaches but still like accessible beaches
so let's assume a boat would arrive there in the best case scenario what would have happened is that either our volunteers or volunteers from other organizations
would spot the boat in a distance possibly even still let's say one and a half mile out and then this person who ever spotted the boat
would kind of communicate this with everybody else on scene and then people would double check and at one point it's confirmed yes it is a boat heading towards us
In this moment already authorities would be informed I guess why we might come back to this later
So authorities would be informed and we would get in position in order to wait so because you know just because you see a boat heading towards you
it doesn't mean necessarily that it will arrive right in front of you so you have to stay flexible
You already tried to judge a little bit the condition of the boat which you can understand a bit from the way it moves
So for example as long as the boat moves straight forward most probably things are going well as soon as it stops we are possibly facing an emergency
because as soon as the boat stops moving it is really dangerous because the sea will just rocket in whatever way the waves go
But okay let's say the boat is still moving towards us so we would get ready
The boat most probably will kind of slide quite gently a bit towards the shore but not actually on shore because at one point also the engine would get stuck
So we would advise people in the boat to turn off the engine and then we would enter the water to people at least on each side of the boat
grab the boat pull it in as much as possible which is quite limited how much you can do it
and then we would stay in the water in order to stabilize the boat
There it would be crucial to advise the people to stay inside the boat not jump from the sides because this can be really dangerous
Not to give children from the side of the boat but leave the boat in a very orderly manner one by one from the front
and then wait on shore so boat is empty we would pull the boat on shore in order to just leave it there for the authorities to deal with it
and then we would go to the people and offer our support in terms of warm clothes maybe just rescue blankets if they are cold
water of course so the most basic things and then of course a first rough medical checkup like a triage if there is any emergency case
and in case no doctor is around we would call doctors on call in order to support us and obviously also an ambulance
we would again inform the authorities that the boat had landed most probably they would have been already around
but if not we would call them again inform them that the people are with us now give them the location and ask them to please come and pick them up
and pick them up in that case means?
Come with a bus and bring them to a camp back in these days it would have been Moria in order to be registered
this is not something that we necessarily liked that it is like this but the people came or are coming in order to ask for asylum
in order to ask for asylum they need to present themselves to the authorities and in order to be registered they have to go to the camp
and the bus of the Coast Guard was at least in the later years the only option for them to do so
because I mean quite early on Lesbos it also became criminalised to transport people right like in your personal vehicle
so you couldn't have gotten your own bus and brought the people yourself this was not an option
exactly like in the beginning UNHCR was still picking up the people from the shore and bring them to the camp
so they had the permission to do so but they stopped at one point and then Coast Guard slash police took over
but before let's say in 2015 a lot of people arrived in the north of the island and this is about 60 kilometres from there to the camp
and people were actually walking and imagine small countryside roads full with people, children, luggage
and people had to walk 60 kilometres either in the very cold in winter or in the summer heat
and in this situation of course a lot of locals stopped and offered people a ride
I mean it's obvious if you see a family with I don't know three kids and one of them a little baby or a highly pregnant woman
or somebody injured or elderly people this is just what you do and already back then people got sued for this
One of the things that was interesting and also inspired me to ask about this is of course the organizational structure of Campfire
and the consequences of that but I can imagine that you have to at some point you get in contact with other organizations
NGOs that are working and also sometimes maybe you have to collaborate with them
If so, how did that play out like in practice but also maybe how you feel about it?
Well it was not always easy and in the very beginning there were quite some actors that it was incredibly difficult to work with
not because of our structure but just in general but you know with the time it becomes quite obvious for everybody involved that you need to at least coordinate
We went a bit further, we also were doing trainings with other groups and NGOs and I still do believe that was the right thing to do
because in the end it's not about who is the best team or who has the right approach
I mean especially if it comes to Sea Rescue I do not think that generally being a bigger NGO is something evil to do
It just comes with certain things that we didn't want and we were in a very special and very luxury position that we could organize the way we did
But it was never that we said like we are not going to work with these evil big NGOs, no not at all
Like we were all working together at the same shore for the same purpose in the end
and I think in every team were quite amazing people that I enjoyed a lot working together with
So just because somebody is volunteering with a bigger NGO it does not mean that this person is less of a great comrade or colleague in this situation
But what about the other way around because of course your perspective or the perspective of Kemper is one thing to be like hey let's work together
But were there organizations, you don't have to name names, but like organizations that were reacting to this like who are you, what gives you the right, do you have certificates, something like this?
To be honest not so much because there were single individuals including myself in Campfire that were there already from the very beginning
And so people knew us and they would have trusted us and then it all depends on behaving as professional as others or even more
So after months and sometimes years working together I don't think that anybody would have questioned the quality of our work as individuals
And then when these individuals tell you okay we are now a bit more of a proper team nobody would really even ask how we are organized
It's not written on our foreheads or our t-shirts, we just do what we do in a slightly different manner
Campfire has been active or was active for some years and what changed in the course of these years?
Because when you started I guess there was a different government in Greece in charge and it's quite visible that the change in government in 2019 led to a whole paradigm shift in migration struggle in general
What were the changes like bigger, smaller, whatever comes to mind?
I mean already before the election of the new government it became quite clear that we have to be really careful in order to not be criminalized
What does it mean careful? Because we never did anything against the law, right? So how can you be more careful?
But for example we started to register all our volunteers at the ministry even though that was by law not really required
But just in order to be able to present the police when they would check on us in the night, these papers, we just decided to do so
So for example like in the beginning the police were there anyway, right? Do not imagine we did something in the dark or in the shadows
It was like the cops were around all the time and we were communicating and they would see us and they would know us
I mean they still know my first name which is maybe not something I like so much but this was just the situation
But at one point the Greek police, the Greek Coast Guard, the Port Police, Frontex, every authority you can name would stop by in the night and check on us
Present me your driver's license, present me your passport, present me your NGO registration saying we are not an NGO wouldn't actually have helped the situation
So this just happened and this increased over the time more and more and more
But we were still able to operate. This changed after Neodemocracia came to power and it changed dramatically
Also Corona and the regulations played their role
So at one point, I mean, you know, people would even be banned to go out without a good reason and doing shoreline response was not a good reason
But anyway, already before the situation turned more and more tense with the police checking, not only checking on us in the night
But actually taking us in, not arresting, but taking us in in order to check our papers which is ridiculous of course
I mean they took me at least three times in a row, always the same officers
Officer, do you really think my passport changed till yesterday and by the way you just addressed me with my first name
So, you know, it didn't make any sense but it became clear like now something is happening, like something is really going on
And parallel what happened was that this whole narrative of the migrants are not just annoying which was already before the thing
This situation has to stop at one point, that's so difficult and da da da
But it was from annoying to they are Erdogan's weapons, bullets actually
So kind of Turkey is pushing them towards us to destroy our country and our culture
Not only received like this in Greece, in Greece of course to a bigger extent, you know, considering the history between Greece and Turkey
But generally in Europe, the whole reception of migrants of the topic migration changed
And then actually at one point Greece decided that everybody who is arriving couldn't ask for asylum at a very specific moment
And would be charged with illegal entry
So people were taken to the port and had to stay in an old military vessel, I mean accommodated there
For I don't even remember how long without knowing what's going to happen next
In the end this procedure was dropped but still at this moment it was clear if we receive people and if we inform the authorities about the arrival
It would mean we send these people to jail
We collaborate with the system that criminalizes these people that did nothing but entering Europe on an already dangerous way
Because they don't have any other and that would completely violate their right to ask for asylum
So we couldn't already continue working because of this
In order to be able to work, as mentioned before, we had to inform the authorities to just be on the shore, receive boats
And then just leave and not inform the authorities at all, wouldn't have worked
It would only have leaded to people sitting there not knowing where to go and us being arrested for sure
So not an option
And the second thing was that at this time the method of pushbacks got quite institutionalized
Pushback means that people who are already on, let's say, Greek territory, either waters or on land
Are collected by the authorities and after dropped on life rafts or on seaworthy vessels or just dropped in Turkish waters
And this already happened in the past, yes, occasionally
But with the new government this became a quite common procedure
It is the most common procedure actually until now
They are still denying it's happening but still it is and we already, you know, we got this information and we saw what's going on
So it was quite clear if we continue working the way we did, we will end up being complicit in these crimes against humanity
Also the first major COVID lockdown in Greece, end of March 2020, was preceded by quite a turbulent few months on Lesbos
Did this have any impact on the work Camp Fire was doing?
Yeah, well, masked men with baseball bats did not actually help the situation
But again, as a self-organized team there is ways to self-organize
So I still do believe we would have been able to deal with the threat somehow
The other thing though, the political aspect and very practical aspect of not collaborating with authorities that are torturing people, this played the way bigger role
Can you talk about maybe some of the best and some of the worst experiences you had whilst working with Camp Fire?
Let me just, a bit more general answer the question, really good aspect is you meet amazing people
You work with amazing people but also the people arriving, impressive people with impressive stories
And I always felt it's quite an honor to be the first person or one of the first persons who are able to welcome these people in Europe
One of the not so nice aspects is doing night shifts in really shitty weather
Being already one hour after you start frozen and it's another seven hours to go
But maybe on a bit more personal level there is one or two things that I for sure will never forget
And maybe start with a not so nice one
So doing this work of course you also deal with suffering quite a bit
And I still remember one night in 2016 right after the EU-Turkey deal was implemented
Or actually when it was implemented obviously people in Turkey panicked
It was not clear what to expect, they thought maybe we are straight away returned to Turkey
So they tried desperately to arrive before the deal is actually implemented
So in this specific night we had more than 35 boats on the southern shoreline only
I mean only there were others in the north but like in our area it was 35 boats
Which was already very crazy but almost all of those boats were extremely overcrowded
And due to this situation in this very night two people died
They had a heart failure in the vessels because of too much pressure
Because people were sitting too tight
And this obviously was a quite awful moment
But then also on a more daily basis what is happening is you are welcoming people
You are trying your very best to be as welcoming, as friendly, as supportive as possible
And then you know they enter the bus and the bus will bring them to one of the shittiest imaginable camps
And there the suffering really starts
And okay it is a decision to still do this job
But it was always incredibly hard for me to hand people over to a situation like this
I mean it's not me handing them over but it's the logical outcome of our actions
Anyway still the decision was always it is better to be there than not to be there
And then the really maybe the nicest ones
You know for example one time a group arrived in a very very shitty area
Where they had to walk quite a bit to reach a place where they can be picked up by bus
Quite a rocky area and people were really tired
So we kind of tried to make them move and I was like come on we have to go now please
It's really important otherwise you will get really cold
And out of the sudden people started singing Bella Ciao
And I mean I know it became quite a pop song but it's still a song touching me
And we sang Bella's song in five different languages all together
And this made us you know being able to move the I don't know one and a half kilometers
That we had to walk to the to the pickup point
That would be one another one was like really old lady arriving alone
It was also in 2016 and she had nothing but nothing like she was traveling alone
But also no luggage nothing nothing and so I kind of started talking with her in order to make sure that she's okay
And at one point she got some candy out of her pocket
And she offered me and I said like how does it come you have nothing but you have candy
And she said yeah well everything I had was stolen from me in Turkey
And you know my family they already traveled first I didn't want to but now things became so bad in Syria
So I had to but anyway my family told me that people like you will be there
And you know I thought I cannot come empty-handed so at least here's some candy
I mean come on like I still have this candy in my house no
And you know there were just this like incredibly nice moments of interaction
And some very touching others you would realize days later that this was intense
And so I still feel really privileged that I ended up being able to do this work
In the end after you stopped or during were there any negative consequences for you
Or other people in Campfire as a result of working camp
Because we touched upon briefly how the police come to check every night
And this sounds more or less routine but were there any like more intense consequences?
Oh yeah there were
Fortunately in Campfire nobody beside me
But if it comes to ERCI this is a Greek NGO and some other volunteers around
There is a court case against us accusing us of facilitating illegal migration
Being members or funding a criminal organization
Espionage which is still my favorite
Money laundering like crazy crazy accusations a total smear campaign
And actually these accusations back then resulted in every NGO leaving the shoreline
Beside us as a team we stayed
The court was meant to happen
Well it all started in 2018
But the court was meant to happen already last year
It got postponed and now the upcoming court date is the 10th of January
Where we will have to defend ourselves for rescuing people
While apparently investigations if it comes to the push-pucks
And actually killing people do not even take place
So yeah looking back at the time of course there is mixed feelings right
I mean to start with it was always sad that it was private people like us who had to do this
It was never something that we wanted
Basically one of the main demands always was like that state actors that authorities fulfilled their duty to rescue to a sustainable degree
As this didn't happen we kind of tried to fill the gap
Which I believe we did well
So you know on the one hand I am of course proud and happy of what we did and also of how we did it
Because first of all we could assist thousands of people
We can of course only assume but most likely we were able to prevent severe damage or even death in a lot of cases
I am still very convinced of the way we did it
Like a horizontal way of organizing zero media policy
So we never felt forced in order to get big fundings to take pictures of people right in the moment of arrival
And like all these things that the big NGOs have to do in order to be sustainable in the NGO business
We managed to find our ways in a very activist way around all this
And this is still something I am proud of and I believe we did right
Then you know right now sitting here at this place where I spent hours and days and months of my life
Of course I am sad that this kind of work right now is simply not possible anymore
That we had to stop because as difficult as it was again I think we did the right thing
And also it was a work that I liked doing
I think we managed to reach an amazing level of being professional with a team only consisting of volunteers
And we did a great job and it is really sad that this is for political reasons and for the oppression that is happening not possible anymore
I mean I wish we would have a situation where we wouldn't need to do it
But now we have a situation where we would still be needed but we simply cannot
And this leads to people suffering and dying on the shores and in the sea
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And now we are at the end of the program
This was a contribution from Radio We See with Lini about the Campfire project
The self-organized group helps people who arrive by boat on Lesbos and they often have to provide first aid
You can listen to the whole contribution at the CBA at any time
From below you can listen to this week as usual on Wednesday at 5pm with the news magazine
And on Thursday the voice-over edition from our editorial office from below will be released
Thank you for being with us
We'll listen to you
That was From Below in conversation
A program from the news editorial office of Radio Helsinki
Thank you for watching